Announcement

Collapse

New Combat Side Stroke Guide

Improve your swim. Use the Naval Special Warfare Combat Side Stroke Guide.

Visit: http://www.sealswcc.com/navy-seal-co...oke-guide.html
See more
See less

CSS 100 Yard need critique

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • CSS 100 Yard need critique

    Been training CSS for about 2 months now working on technique and cutting down on strokes. Started with 8-10 strokes and now down to 5-7. Need some help with my form. I feel I am bouncing up on by breath and kick and not getting enough glide for optimal time. At a 9:30 for best 500 and 1:41 for best 100.

    From reading on the forums it seems using both sides helps. My right side is at 10 min 500 pace so need to work on that. First video need to get someone to track me as I go the pool (25yards). Will get another video here soon with better quality. Any reccomendations appreciated!

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bdOPJrd2140

    Thanks!

  • #2
    quick few things, you need a jammer, and start working on flexibility, your hands dont touch out in front of you when gliding, work on that!
    secondly you seem out of balance in the water, personally instead of writing out a massive critique I suggest you review and watch the official tutorial to the CSS an compare it to yourself and what you're doing. There is a lot that needs to be worked on, try to find these things on your own and be conscious of these. Then once you have fixed the obvious post another video so we can find the smaller things that will get you in the real low numbers.

    Comment


    • #3
      Thanks for the reply will do!

      Comment


      • #4
        Whats going on, Ottechris? I'm definitely no expert, but I don't think you're in as bad of shape as what scott seems to think. Stew Smith (ex-SEAL turned trainer) has a ton of videos reviewing the CSS. Smith has posted vids of how NOT to do CSS and I'd say you're far from that.

        I'd say fix your hands from the push off the wall (one on top of the other). You want to be as long and straight as possible. All the small kicks between your big scissor kick will tire you out in the long run (I'm guilty of this too)...try and focus on a bigger scissor kick and longer glide coming off the scissor. That'll take some getting used to but once you get more power to your kick you're going to shoot through that water. Also, getting some short swim shorts or tights will help lessen the drag of the water that long swim shorts make. I know it's hard to look "cool" getting out of a cold pool in tights (if you know what I mean) but I think it's worth having a better swim time. One last thing that may help you stay horizontal in the water is trying to keep your bottom ear as close to your bottom shoulder as possible (or in line with your spine) when on your side taking a breath. If your head is up your body will follow, creating a bobbing/up and down motion instead of a flatter/forward motion.

        Check out Stew Smith's page on youtube: https://www.youtube.com/user/stew50smith ...he explains all of this 20x better than what I can.
        I'm not crazy fast in the water but I put up an 8:54 swim on my first PST by studying Smith's CSS vids on his channel. So, watch his videos if you haven't, take notes, and practice a lot...it'll click one day I promise!

        Stay motivated!
        TX35

        Comment


        • #5
          Hi,

          I took a look at it. Sorry for the long post but you're going to get a lot of detail here.

          1 - Streamline. You are not hitting a proper streamline position at any point in that 100. A streamline is something that is 100% effective if done perfectly and 60% effective if done 95% perfectly. You should hit this position off the wall, and at the top of every stroke cycle.

          2 - Timing. You are breathing too late in the stroke cycle. You should be rotating to breath with/during the first pull. You are late, and that is causing you to artificially extend the second pull which is creating a recovery dead spot.

          3 - Second pull. Switch this to the "sprinter's sidestroke" pull covered in the official video at the top of the swim section. Use this exclusively because your issue is slow recovery time and getting caught short in the water for too long of a span of time in your stroke cycle.

          4 - Turns. Mamma mia, I could time those with a calendar. Plenty of resources on that. Search here and youtube for open turns.

          5 - Double arm pull is very weak/ineffective. I did a very specific video on this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6m_LtMCx9QI You are barely making the backstroke flags when you should be a threat to the halfway line.

          6 - Crazy legs. After you come off the wall at the beginning, you start a whole bunch of useless flutter kicking, which culminates in your right leg kicking out spastically a few times. That is hurting way more than it feels like it's helping. You need a streamline in the back too. When gliding off the wall keep the feet together, hidden behind the cylinder of the body.

          7 - Kick. You are using a breast stroke kick. That's fine, and it will actually make it easier to swim on both sides.

          8 - Single sided. It's necessary for a number of reasons to swim on both sides so start doing it NOW. 2:1 on the side you are avoiding. You are using a breast stroke kick so this should be an easy lift.

          Any questions post away. You have some technical work to do but it's all totally repairable with mindful practice.


          /Coach Freddy


          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by TX35 View Post
            Whats going on, Ottechris? I'm definitely no expert, but I don't think you're in as bad of shape as what scott seems to think. Stew Smith (ex-SEAL turned trainer) has a ton of videos reviewing the CSS. Smith has posted vids of how NOT to do CSS and I'd say you're far from that.

            I'd say fix your hands from the push off the wall (one on top of the other). You want to be as long and straight as possible. All the small kicks between your big scissor kick will tire you out in the long run (I'm guilty of this too)...try and focus on a bigger scissor kick and longer glide coming off the scissor. That'll take some getting used to but once you get more power to your kick you're going to shoot through that water. Also, getting some short swim shorts or tights will help lessen the drag of the water that long swim shorts make. I know it's hard to look "cool" getting out of a cold pool in tights (if you know what I mean) but I think it's worth having a better swim time. One last thing that may help you stay horizontal in the water is trying to keep your bottom ear as close to your bottom shoulder as possible (or in line with your spine) when on your side taking a breath. If your head is up your body will follow, creating a bobbing/up and down motion instead of a flatter/forward motion.

            Check out Stew Smith's page on youtube: https://www.youtube.com/user/stew50smith ...he explains all of this 20x better than what I can.
            I'm not crazy fast in the water but I put up an 8:54 swim on my first PST by studying Smith's CSS vids on his channel. So, watch his videos if you haven't, take notes, and practice a lot...it'll click one day I promise!

            Stay motivated!
            TX35
            Thanks for the tips TX35 very much appreciated!! I have been moving through the application pipeline and just finished my sf-86 and nasis application. I recently took my ASVAB and scored a 90 on the AFQT. I report to MEPS on Tuesday morning and if cleared (vision would be only thing holding me back) will sign up for delayed entry program. Good to hear you have gotten in a PST, I look forward to getting further in the process and start working with a mentor joining workouts! Ill keep you all updated on the process!

            I have reviewed almost all of the Stew Smith videos and will keep reviewing them; lots of good info in there to study. I have started increasing my pool time and incorporating the drills in the official CSS video more often. My balance is definitely off and one thing that can greatly improve.

            As far as the kick goes are there any drills or things that helped you to develop a better kick and position for this? I feel i am mixing the scissor kick and breaststroke kick. I would like to develop a better scissor kick as that is what is used during buds and with fins. I believe head positioning will help with this as I continue to work on that. I will incorporate the tip you mentioned. I will also practice the Stew Smith video on scissor kick with paddle board.

            Thanks again for the comments! Wish the best with your training.

            Ottechris



            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by fargo007 View Post
              Hi,

              I took a look at it. Sorry for the long post but you're going to get a lot of detail here.

              1 - Streamline. You are not hitting a proper streamline position at any point in that 100. A streamline is something that is 100% effective if done perfectly and 60% effective if done 95% perfectly. You should hit this position off the wall, and at the top of every stroke cycle.

              2 - Timing. You are breathing too late in the stroke cycle. You should be rotating to breath with/during the first pull. You are late, and that is causing you to artificially extend the second pull which is creating a recovery dead spot.

              3 - Second pull. Switch this to the "sprinter's sidestroke" pull covered in the official video at the top of the swim section. Use this exclusively because your issue is slow recovery time and getting caught short in the water for too long of a span of time in your stroke cycle.

              4 - Turns. Mamma mia, I could time those with a calendar. Plenty of resources on that. Search here and youtube for open turns.

              5 - Double arm pull is very weak/ineffective. I did a very specific video on this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6m_LtMCx9QI You are barely making the backstroke flags when you should be a threat to the halfway line.

              6 - Crazy legs. After you come off the wall at the beginning, you start a whole bunch of useless flutter kicking, which culminates in your right leg kicking out spastically a few times. That is hurting way more than it feels like it's helping. You need a streamline in the back too. When gliding off the wall keep the feet together, hidden behind the cylinder of the body.

              7 - Kick. You are using a breast stroke kick. That's fine, and it will actually make it easier to swim on both sides.

              8 - Single sided. It's necessary for a number of reasons to swim on both sides so start doing it NOW. 2:1 on the side you are avoiding. You are using a breast stroke kick so this should be an easy lift.

              Any questions post away. You have some technical work to do but it's all totally repairable with mindful practice.


              /Coach Freddy

              Coach Freddy very much appreciate the post thank you for the detail and numbering the tips!!

              1. I definitely need to work on the streamline position and will continue to do this. I have noticed in my recent swims when i do get the full streamline i am hitting 50.5 consistently for 50s and 1:41 -1:42 for 100's will continue to work this.

              2. I had not thought of this or noticed this. Great critique! I will work on being more mindful of this. I feel i do feel that dead spot during the second pull so I will incorporate this into my training and work on your further mentioned point of incorporating the sprinter stroke into my second arm pull.

              4. Very much agreed from the beginning has been a huge addition of time to my swims. I will work on this and check out the videos and blog for resource.

              5. thank you for the video link I will incorporate this into my training. I will study this video and work to improve my double arm pull. I feel my arms are doing more of a jumping jack motion instead of the muscle up version Stew Smith teaches. Definitely will work on this.

              6. Point taken and thank you for pointing this out. Until videoing myself I hadn't noticed my right leg tendency to continue to kick after the wall and double arm push off and out of my kick. I believe balance to be my issue here. I will continue to work the drills for balance shown in the CSS official video.

              7. I had wondered about my kick and after videoing definitely observed i use a breaststroke kick. Is there any drills you recommend to get better at the scissor kick as I would favor using this over the breaststroke kick as it is what is used when swimming with fins.

              8. I continue to work on both sides but will contribute more time to do this as I feel it is extremely helpful for coordination and overall conditioning benefit to be competent on both sides.

              Thank you for your critique and I will mindfully incorporate these into my training. Your tips are very much appreciated and much appreciate the videos you post.

              Thanks,

              Ottechris

              Comment


              • #8
                Thank you all again for your critiques! I continue to increase my pool workouts and breakdown of specific skills. I will incorporate the aforementioned tips into my training as well as study the mentioned links/ video content and CSS official video and seal website post. I will post an updated video within a couple weeks.

                Ottechris

                Comment


                • #9
                  I wouldn't worry about changing the kick. It's actually incorrect to say that the scissor kick is used with fins. It's similar muscles, but to actually load and fire repeated scissor kicks isn't what you want to do with fins. Your knees aren't built to accept the sudden force created by the surface area of a dive fin.

                  CSS with fins is a completely different stroke, with different timing, different turns, a fixed, almost non-rotating body position, a different breakout off the wall and it uses a constant and even flutter/wave kick. A dolphin kick is also a nice alternate tool to have with fins.

                  OTOH, the breast stroke kick is EXACTLY the same kick as eggbeater treading, except done with both legs instead of an alternating pattern of kick and recover.

                  Streamline, swimming on both sides, fixing the timing issue and sprinter-izing the second pull are the top four things in order for you IMHO.

                  Please do post another video here. This is all repairable and there's no reason you won't hit a superior time. Looking forward to the progress!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Ottechris55 View Post

                    Thanks for the tips TX35 very much appreciated!! I have been moving through the application pipeline and just finished my sf-86 and nasis application. I recently took my ASVAB and scored a 90 on the AFQT. I report to MEPS on Tuesday morning and if cleared (vision would be only thing holding me back) will sign up for delayed entry program. Good to hear you have gotten in a PST, I look forward to getting further in the process and start working with a mentor joining workouts! Ill keep you all updated on the process!

                    I have reviewed almost all of the Stew Smith videos and will keep reviewing them; lots of good info in there to study. I have started increasing my pool time and incorporating the drills in the official CSS video more often. My balance is definitely off and one thing that can greatly improve.

                    As far as the kick goes are there any drills or things that helped you to develop a better kick and position for this? I feel i am mixing the scissor kick and breaststroke kick. I would like to develop a better scissor kick as that is what is used during buds and with fins. I believe head positioning will help with this as I continue to work on that. I will incorporate the tip you mentioned. I will also practice the Stew Smith video on scissor kick with paddle board.

                    Thanks again for the comments! Wish the best with your training.

                    Ottechris


                    Ottechris,

                    That's a fantastic AFQT. Great job. Are you trying for an officer spot? I had an 87 AFQT and some dude at MEPS who had scored a 96 was trying to get me to go nuke with him...I told him I had a lot of lucky guesses to get that 87 and there's no way I'd belong on a sub doing calculus and algebra haha.

                    MEPS was a heck of a long day...bring a book! My vision held me back (I was 20/50 and the minimum was 20/45...really frustrating). I'm almost two months out of PRK surgery...best thing ever. Seeing 20/20 although my bank account is hurting!

                    The thing I feel has helped strengthening my kick the most is longer distance swims, scissor kicking the whole time using fins (focus on really getting your legs separated then pushing hard into a long glide...was uncomfortable at first but you get used to it as you go...start with an 800m swim then go for a 1000m then a 1200m and so on etc. etc.). You'll want a pair of fins you have to wear swim booties with. These are what I bought http://shop.navyseals.com/rocket-fin/ along with the IST Proline 5mm bootie.

                    I'm sure there are better ways though so I'd do some research before taking my word for it! That is just what I did.

                    Comment

                    Working...
                    X