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Thread: I dont really understand why people DOR @ BUD/S

  1. #1

    I dont really understand why people DOR @ BUD/S

    I want to get a better understanding of the 80% that drop on request so I wont end up being one of them. I dont quite understand why they quit. 6 months of being extremely cold, wet, aching, sleep deprived,pushed nearly to unhealthy limits - to me sounds like a fair enough price to pay for what you get in return for the rest of your life.

    I dont understand how one can train many months and go through the process of getting into BUD/S and just quit.

    I saw BUD/S class 234 and remember one guy DOR because in the middle of it he realized that his wife/family were more important than his dream of being a SEAL. I understand his reason but he still should of thought of that before. I, on the other hand, dont have anything to worry about from back home. (no girlfriend, only small bills to pay - no extra weight to carry at BUD/S) Another guy DOR well into BUD/S because the water was too cold in the ocean, even though I dont know what it's like,for a second I looked at him in disdain - what the hell was he expecting!?

    I don't know If this is cheesy or corny to some guys but I have respect and am serious ,not only about being a SEAL, but also about the process of becoming a SEAL and I dont like it when people say, "oh I just want to see if I can make it that's all" or "I may not make it and end up quiting but I'll give it a shot" To me they sound like they already failed because they dont sound serious and talk like it isn't a big deal. In my opinion, a good candidate would never go into BUD/S thinking like that and is one of the reasons why they will still be standing at the end of BUD/S. Do you agree?

    So those 80 out of 100 guys that quit...can some one explain why they DOR?

    It's simply said they aren't tough enough mentaly but was it because those ~80% lacked seriousness, lacked thinking and research and preperation before BUD/S?

  2. #2
    Ken
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    Re: I dont really understand why people DOR @ BUD/S

    No, none of that. They quit because it is incredibly difficult. It is very easy to sit at home in front of the computer and read the wikipedia page about the SEAL training pipeline and say, "I can do that."

    To be honest your post irks me a bit but I can't quite place why it does so. You can expect cold water and sleep deprivation I suppose, but there's a massive difference between conceptualizing the idea of being cold, wet, tired and forced to do difficult physical tasks...

    And actually doing it.

  3. #3
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    Re: I dont really understand why people DOR @ BUD/S

    Fatigue makes cowards of us all.
    -Vince Lombardi

    SEALs aren't in the same class with "us all" though.

  4. #4
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    Re: I dont really understand why people DOR @ BUD/S

    You don't understand why people quit because you haven't been there. I sometimes have had the same thoughts, but it sure is easy to say you won't quit sitting in a warm house where no one is yelling at you. No one goes to BUD/S thinking they will quit. They all believe they can make it. I'm sure you have been cold, sore, and have overcome challenges both physically and mentally before, but not to the degree that you will be at BUD/S.

    From what I've heard, you are on the right thought process. People who can look past their current pain and visualize the big picture, being in the Teams, are the ones that are more likely to make it. You can read books and watch on the Discovery channel about BUD/S and get an idea about what it's going to be like. Until you get there, however, do you really see just how challenging it is. This is all, of course, what I've heard. I myself have not gone yet, but perhaps people who have been can give you some better insight.

    "What this power is, I cannot say. All I know is that it exists...and it becomes available only when you are in that state of mind in which you know exactly what you want...and are fully determined not to quit until you get it." - Alexander Graham Bell

  5. #5

    Re: I dont really understand why people DOR @ BUD/S

    Ken, sorry to "irk" you and I know talk is cheap. What do you mean by its incredibly difficult? of course it is but I thought every one in BUD/S was capable of finishing but they have to WANT it really bad.

  6. #6

    Re: I dont really understand why people DOR @ BUD/S

    It's 6 months of being cold and wet and exhausted, but don't think after BUD/S you live in a warm home and work 8-5.. Many SEALs have said that what they go through in BUD/S is a vacation compared to some of their continuing training. Don't go into thinking it's only 6 months of suffering. I believe the ones that make it are the ones that learn to love the cold and the struggles and look forward to the next obstacle.

  7. #7

    Re: I dont really understand why people DOR @ BUD/S

    aggie2013, I know BUD/S isn't the hardest part but once you complete it you are in, you become a SEAL and I know its a job where your comfort comes last.

  8. #8
    Ken
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    Re: I dont really understand why people DOR @ BUD/S

    Quote Originally Posted by JGuerrero View Post
    Ken, sorry to "irk" you and I know talk is cheap. What do you mean by its incredibly difficult? of course it is but I thought every one in BUD/S was capable of finishing but they have to WANT it really bad.
    There's no hidden meaning, BUD/S is an incredibly demanding and difficult selection process. People quit because it is physically and mentally difficult. Many candidates think they want it really bad but are forced to reconsider during training. There's really not much too it. If you're confident you have what it takes then there's no point debating that which is ultimately irrelevant.

    Also, for clarification purposes you are not a SEAL once you graduate from BUD/S. The Trident is only awarded upon completion of SQT.

  9. #9
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    Re: I dont really understand why people DOR @ BUD/S

    Quote Originally Posted by JGuerrero View Post
    aggie2013, I know BUD/S isn't the hardest part but once you complete it you are in, you become a SEAL and I know its a job where your comfort comes last.
    Not true at all. You do not become a SEAL after BUD/S. Men have graduated BUD/S and never attained the Trident. You have airborne school, SERE training and 6 months of SQT(SEAL Qualification Training) then you become a SEAL. So if you pass BUD/S you still have 7-8 months of hardcore training before you become a SEAL.

    Some guys also get sent into 18D (medical course) and that extends their training even longer (about 30 weeks) and that comes before SQT.
    So to think that after you pass BUD/S your a SEAL is just absolutely false. And if you think that everyone that passes BUD/S is just automatically going to pass everything else you are also wrong.

    BUD/S is the beginning of the pipeline not even close to the end of it......

  10. #10

    Re: I dont really understand why people DOR @ BUD/S

    Yes of course. First BUD/S then 2 years of training then the SEAL title.

    Thanks everyone.

  11. #11
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    Re: I dont really understand why people DOR @ BUD/S

    You can find some interesting perspectives on this question in this thread on reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/Military/com...f_any_kind_of/

  12. #12
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    Re: I dont really understand why people DOR @ BUD/S

    I'm with Ken on this one. Something about this thread bothers me. I realize you want to pinpoint the root cause of people that DOR at BUD/S, but without ever being there you can't judge their decisions. I'd love to know the reasoning too, but I'll wait until I witness the *** whipping firsthand to find out

  13. #13

    Cool Re: I dont really understand why people DOR @ BUD/S

    Quote Originally Posted by iWontStop View Post
    You can find some interesting perspectives on this question in this thread on reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/Military/com...f_any_kind_of/
    Thank you. The rest of the guys on here couldn't answer my question. I will admit my question was confusing and and therefore "irked" some people here.

  14. #14

    Re: I dont really understand why people DOR @ BUD/S

    I have a few things I could say, so PM me if you want to get into a philisophical debate. For the sake of briefness, I will skip straight to what I think is most important here: RESPECT. I'm saying this in a nuetral tone, so don't think that I'm flaming on you.

    1) Don't talk about BUD/s like you know what going on. Neither you nor I have been there and, as such, have no right to judge its difficulty until we have undergone it.

    2) "for a second I looked at him in disdain - what the hell was he expecting!?" I don't think I need to say anything.

    Train hard. Live SEAL.

  15. #15

    Re: I dont really understand why people DOR @ BUD/S

    Again, sorry for the confusing question.

  16. #16
    Senior Member Barall's Avatar
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    Re: I dont really understand why people DOR @ BUD/S

    You don't understand it because you've never been to BUD/S, let alone spent a single day in the military. JROTC/ROTC weekend dress-up doesn't count either.

    BUD/S isn't you waking up from an eight hour night of rest then going to the gym and lifting weights for a couple of hours then getting a protein shake afterwards as you get ready to take a warm shower and go to your day job or school. It's more like operating on four to five hours of sleep and then doing a bunch of mentally and physically exhausting tasks for 12+ hours straight and then doing it all over again the next day.

    Your original post makes it sound like you're scrutinizing DORs because you think you're better than them. You haven't even spent one day in boot camp, let alone BUD/S. The mind-**** of getting yelled at by RDCs every day for eight+ weeks for nit-picky ******** is enough to make the average person feel mentally exhausted. Our boot camp division started with 87 recruits and only graduated 69, and three of those were roll-ins. So, in reality, we lost 21 people over ten weeks (that's including the one week of P-days and the one week of holiday stand-down where we didn't do anything except get beat). The funny thing about all of that? It was only boot camp. BUD/S is said to be a hundred times harder than boot camp.

    You don't need to understand why people decide to DOR in BUD/S. Everyone has their own personal reason. Everyone seems to be nuking this (BUD/S). If being a SEAL is really what you want, then understanding why other people don't want it as bad doesn't really matter. Besides, you won't truly understand until you actually get there and start going through the day-to-day mental exhaustion.

  17. #17
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    Re: I dont really understand why people DOR @ BUD/S

    I also haven't ever been to BUD/S so I cannot attest as to the effect it will have on me or my motivation; However, I also don't think it is in any way fair to make such a general statement about those people who DORed when they were numb, exhausted, or realized the full extent of the lifestyle required of Navy SEALs.

    One of the reasons I want to become a SEAL is because I wrestled for many years. Now, I am not trying to compare the stressors of wrestling practice to those of BUD/S, but the general principle is the same. I was a ***** before I started wrestling and the abuse, fatigue, and idea of not only being completely disciplined and tough during training but also being forced to monitor other areas of your life that you may not have previously paid any attention to had an effect on me. I suddenly found myself actively trying to be as uncomfortable as I could stand, as often as possible simply because I thought it would make me a better wrestler (and you tend to enjoy it after a while). I strongly believe that my goal of becoming a SEAL is due in part to this "warrior" mentality that was instilled in me throughout my years as a wrestler, in addition to my lifelong desire to become a soldier and serve my country; Additionally, I have always been a thrill-seeker.

    Even today I didn't come to work in a jacket regardless of the fact that it was twenty degrees outside and snowing. Some of my work colleagues call this stupid, some call it crazy, but all of them admit that they understand why I am doing it. Regardless, that doesn't mean that I particularly enjoy freezing my *** off when I could just as easily be wearing a jacket. No matter how motivated and determined I am to go outside underdressed when I'm looking at the snow on the ground through the window, it doesn't make it any easier (or any more pleasurable) when it takes me five extra minutes to brush the snow off my car because my hands are numb and I'm shivering. But it does put in perspective the kind of sacrifice I will have to make when in BUD/S, and that makes it tremendously easier to spend time outside when it's below freezing.

    Just because it's worth it doesn't mean that people (especially prospective SEALs at BUD/S) enjoy being cold, uncomfortable, and exhausted for hours at a time. In reference to the above article, just being outside without a jacket sucks majorly. Being outside with a jacket, while exhausted, sleep-deprived, exercising, and being tormented by an instructor sounds pretty undesirable right now. But that's the reality of you want to be a frog man.

  18. #18
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    Re: I dont really understand why people DOR @ BUD/S

    I'm sick of people coming on the internet posting stories about why they think they have what it takes to be a ******* Navy SEAL. This is a recruiting site, it's here for people to come and get information about becoming a SEAL and maybe provide some motivation. It's not here for people to post stories about why they want to be a SEAL or why they know they have what it takes. Guess what? Every man who finds himself at BUD/s thinks he has what it takes. Guess how many of those guys DOR? A lot.

    And yeah, I know this is the "Mental Toughness" forum. But if you don't have anything insightful to say, ask or post then don't post anything at all, for the love of God. I check this site everyday hoping to find some useful new information or insight, and when I click on a new post and I find myself reading a page long essay by some kid who thinks he has what it takes to be a Navy SEAL because he wrestled in high school, it's a little annoying. newyorker223, wrestling in high school in no way makes you a "warrior" or gives you a clue what the "warrior" mindset is. I have this same issue with CrossFitters who throw that title around. You can do Fran in 5:00 minutes? Good for you, but that doesn't make you a warrior.

    And maybe you do have what it takes to get through BUD/s, hell, I hope you do. I don't wish failure on anyone, but if you're so confident in yourself then there's no reason to explain yourself to everyone else. Seriously, quiet confidence is always a good policy, especially since we're all still wannabes. And that not wearing a jacket to work thing? You're not doing anything besides annoying your coworkers. Ask any SEAL whose been through BUD/s and they'll tell you trying to get used to the cold is a waste of time.

  19. #19
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    Re: I dont really understand why people DOR @ BUD/S

    Amen ziljaeden. Couldn't agree more.

  20. #20
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    Re: I dont really understand why people DOR @ BUD/S

    It's probably because they think about how long BUD/s is instead of taking it one step at a time.

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