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  • DUI

    back when i was 19 in 2011 i got a DUI(misdemeanor) . its now expunged and i am off probation. i recently spoke to my recruiter and he said i would not be able to join the SEAL program with it on my record.is this true. And has anyone had experience with getting it waived?

  • #2
    I had a DUI in 2013 and a firearms charge with it. The firearms charged was dismissed in court but I had to take the DUI. I had it waived with no problem and have been in DEP trying for a SEAL contract since February.

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    • #3
      If the DUI is expunged, then that's like it never happened. Since the record of the conviction was destroyed, then there is no way your recruiter or anyone else could ever possibly find out about it. Therefore, you were never convicted of the DUI. There's no reason to tell anybody about the conviction. Regardless, you may want to find a different recruiter, in a different location, you probably don't want to see that guy again.

      Not an expert opinion just common sense.

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      • nickmort98
        nickmort98 commented
        Editing a comment
        Expungement does not mean the record is destroyed, it is merely sealed. Anyone can gain access to your sealed record if they have written consent from you, which is required in the application process.
        Last edited by nickmort98; 07-12-2016, 12:10 PM. Reason: Grammar

    • #4
      Originally posted by OuterHeaven View Post
      If the DUI is expunged, then that's like it never happened. Since the record of the conviction was destroyed, then there is no way your recruiter or anyone else could ever possibly find out about it. Therefore, you were never convicted of the DUI. There's no reason to tell anybody about the conviction. Regardless, you may want to find a different recruiter, in a different location, you probably don't want to see that guy again.

      Not an expert opinion just common sense.
      Military applicants are required, by law, to disclose any sealed, expunged, or juvenile criminal records. An expunged record doesn't necessarily mean that the offender was cleared of all charges. An expunged record can be the result of reducing a felony offense to a misdemeanor. It also protects the offender when applying for private sector jobs or attempting to rent an apartment from a landlord. If Brent applies for a job in the private sector and they ask if he has any convictions or criminal history, then he can say no. There are many exceptions to this on the federal level. Having a record expunged DOES NOT protect you from applying for federal positions and the record needs to be disclosed. Failure to disclose is considered withholding information, which holds a penalty of up to $10000 and/or up to 5 years prison.

      To Brent285: Having the record expunged should increase your chances of receiving a waiver. Moral waivers are generally granted by using the "whole man" approach. I do not have any experience with this so I cannot claim I know what to do.
      "Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men. Do not pray for tasks equal to your powers. Pray for powers equal to your tasks. Then the doing of your work shall be no miracle. But you shall be a miracle." -Phillips Brooks

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      • #5
        Originally posted by NeverGivingUp View Post

        Military applicants are required, by law, to disclose any sealed, expunged, or juvenile criminal records. An expunged record doesn't necessarily mean that the offender was cleared of all charges. An expunged record can be the result of reducing a felony offense to a misdemeanor. It also protects the offender when applying for private sector jobs or attempting to rent an apartment from a landlord. If Brent applies for a job in the private sector and they ask if he has any convictions or criminal history, then he can say no. There are many exceptions to this on the federal level. Having a record expunged DOES NOT protect you from applying for federal positions and the record needs to be disclosed. Failure to disclose is considered withholding information, which holds a penalty of up to $10000 and/or up to 5 years prison.

        To Brent285: Having the record expunged should increase your chances of receiving a waiver. Moral waivers are generally granted by using the "whole man" approach. I do not have any experience with this so I cannot claim I know what to do.
        I don't know who told you that but you're far from the truth. As I said there's no way of your recruiter or anyone else ever knowing, as long as you keep your mouth shut the length of your career and act like it never happened, so there's no reason to tell them anything. What daddy don't know won't hurt him. Anyone willing to put their life on the line to be a SEAL shouldn't be afraid of going down in the legal system because there is some punk like you threatening legal action because they wanted to serve their country. The police and judicial system will acknowledge that this is a good kid going through the motions, got a slap on the wrist, there's no record of it, and in nearly every case will probably not press charges.

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        • #6
          OuterHeaven You're giving out really bad and false information. If you don't know what you're talking about before quite and let someone with experience answer the question.

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          • #7
            OuterHeaven you are absolutely correct when you say that the recruiter cannot access it, but it is accessible by anyone (FBI, CID, NCIS, etc) who can conduct a federal background check. Background checks are conducted in order for a security clearance to be obtained along with getting your fingerprints done. Many recruiting offices have NCIS or CID (Army) investigators on sight that conduct the background checks. I don't know Brent's situation, but I can guarantee that he had his fingerprints done if he was arrested, which already puts him in the system. When the recruiter does the fingerprints and sends it to whoever (FBI, NCIS, CID, etc), the report will come back with everything criminal related, whether it is expunged, sealed, or juvenile records. I don't know if NSW still does this, but in Orientation, the staff would conduct a thorough background check along with a polygraph test on every student. A simple google search will tell you that expunged criminal history does show up on a federal background check.
            "Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men. Do not pray for tasks equal to your powers. Pray for powers equal to your tasks. Then the doing of your work shall be no miracle. But you shall be a miracle." -Phillips Brooks

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            • #8
              Yeah.. Right... Anyone reading this do not listen to either of these guys in this matter. They could have career obligations which requires them to say this so the NAVY(or who ever they work for) knows exactly what kind of recruit that they are getting their hands on with you. If you have to, ask the attorney or whoever covered your case. That person can easily clarify it for you. If you're a good recruit and any trouble you got in has been removed from your record, then the NAVY will never find out about it. If they do, there's a good chance they'll ignore it. And if they do find out about it and they discharge you, you have a slim chance of them actually pressing criminal charges against you. If you do have a conviction on your record and there's no way to get it dropped because you weren't offered a plea deal, you HAVE TO DISCLOSE THIS INFORMATION up the recruiting pipeline. If it was a felony conviction then you are disqualified from not only the NAVY, but the rest of the military, and law enforcement. Sorry, it's just not for you. If it is a misdemeanor drug conviction, you have to be free of the courts and a time window has to have gone by. I think it's 2 years, but it could be less, I'm not sure. If it's a misdemeanor not involving illicit drug possession, as long as you have competed your sentence, paid any fines or fees, and have permission to leave the jurisdiction, then you are clear to join the NAVY. Before you even take that step of telling them you wanna be a SEAL or whatever, make sure that you are at the weight and physical shape that you want to be in as if BUD/S started tomorrow. Trust me this will help your case. It also helps to be well rested and not completely burnt out so you want to be towards the light end of the normal weight on the BMI index. You may even want to be at the lowest minimum weight before you are considered underweight , then you'll have room to gain 10 pounds and rest, and not even sweat it.

              No offense to you TY93 or NeverGivingUp, but like you said to me, you're giving out misinformation and I want to give my correct information that a SEAL as well as a US ARMY operator told me, While he was at Westpoint.

              The alternative is you unnecessarily spilling the beans to some battleship radar operator about some petty time you had a brush with the law which, in every sense of the legal definition, never even happened. He couldn't care less about you wanting to be a SEAL and he will tell you that your disqualified so that he can go back to drinking coffee.

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              • #9
                As of now i am clear to go i just need two waivers. one for the warriors challenge program and one for the Navy. he said most likely i wont need the one for the navy. next step would be take ASVAB and dep. as far as fitness i am not there "yet" still need to get my swim down by 30 seconds.

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                • #10
                  No offense to you, OuterHeaven, but I never said that you cannot get into the military with a criminal record, because I know for a fact you can. I think you are completely misunderstanding what I originally said. I said that it is required to disclose your criminal history and other run ins with law enforcement, regardless of what the outcome was because your original comment was: "If the DUI is expunged, then that's like it never happened. Since the record of the conviction was destroyed, then there is no way your recruiter or anyone else could ever possibly find out about it. Therefore, you were never convicted of the DUI. There's no reason to tell anybody about the conviction." That statement is simply false.

                  Refer to DD2807-2 Section 2 Medical History: Question #138 Currently have or any history of "Been arrested or other encounters with law enforcement".

                  Also refer to http://usmilitary.about.com/od/navyjoin/a/navcrime.htm
                  "For the purposes of enlistment in the military, there is no such thing as a "sealed record," or an "expunged record." One is required, by law, to list all incidents where one was arrested or charged, regardless of the final outcome".

                  Also: "They could have career obligations which requires them to say this so the NAVY(or who ever they work for) knows exactly what kind of recruit that they are getting their hands on with you". I don't know what exactly that statement is referring to so I'm going to assume it's referring to Ty93 and I. I don't work for any government agency so I have no obligation to give out any of the information I post on this forum. I'm just a civilian who has been lurking on this forum for close to 4 years now.

                  To Brent: Congratulations and best of luck on your journey.
                  "Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men. Do not pray for tasks equal to your powers. Pray for powers equal to your tasks. Then the doing of your work shall be no miracle. But you shall be a miracle." -Phillips Brooks

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                  • #11
                    OuterHeaven is definitely a troll guys. His "advice" will destroy your career before it even began.

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                    • #12
                      Originally posted by TY93 View Post
                      OuterHeaven is definitely a troll guys. His "advice" will destroy your career before it even began.
                      Figured he was a troll after looking at his more recent posts.
                      "Do not pray for easy lives. Pray to be stronger men. Do not pray for tasks equal to your powers. Pray for powers equal to your tasks. Then the doing of your work shall be no miracle. But you shall be a miracle." -Phillips Brooks

                      Comment


                      • #13
                        Just thought I'd weigh in here as someone who has been in a security manager/SSO role for some time.

                        Yes, there are some things a person can, in theory, make a decision to "hide" -- but that is hardly the point.

                        The questions you have to ask yourself are these:

                        Is that how you want to start a military career?

                        What does that say about your own integrity?

                        When the question being asked is, "Have you EVER..." regardless of the specific circumstances, you have an easy choice: you can answer honestly, or you can lie.

                        Now, I have seen a few instances of things that may be in someone's past that are 1. disqualifying (whether for service, certain clearances, etc.), and also 2. only known to the individual. But when you make a decision to lie or conceal something in response to an official question, you are abandoning personal honor and doing yourself a grave disservice.

                        But in this specific instance, when the questions are in regard to criminal offenses, prior arrests, detentions, etc., even if not convicted, or convicted and expunged, etc., you must be honest. Speaking only from the practical standpoint, here is why:

                        There may be certain things that a recruiter or a preliminary investigation for a SECRET clearance (NACLC) may not uncover. But as your career begins and progresses, you will fill out forms and provide answers related to security clearances that will specifically ask you things like:

                        - Have you been issued a summons, citation, or ticket to appear in court in a criminal proceeding against you?
                        - Have you been arrested by any police officer, sheriff, marshal or any other type of law enforcement official?
                        - Have you been charged, convicted, or sentenced of a crime in any court?
                        - Has your use of alcohol resulted in intervention by law enforcement/public safety personnel?

                        The answer to all of these questions, which you will be asked, can only be, "Yes," if you are answering honestly.

                        You may be asked to be a part of special programs, or may be assigned to commands or missions requiring a TS/SCI clearance requiring a Single Scope Background Investigation (SSBI) and a counterintelligence (CI) or full-scope ("lifestyle") polygraph.

                        An initial lie, like all lies, becomes harder to cover up and keep track of. And if anyone as part of any process ever discovers it, even years later, then that puts an end to your clearance, your career, and might also have criminal implications, because you will also have answered those questions dishonestly to federal investigators -- not just your recruiter.

                        I hope this helps you and others asking the same question. Your own honor, integrity, character, and honesty are paramount.
                        Last edited by das; 07-13-2016, 07:24 PM.

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                        • #14
                          Admins can you please remove/block Outerheaven. Everyone knows he trolls, his legal advice is disturbing, and it can effect someone's life negatively. He should be removed on the grounds of having no beneficial attachment to this website and for giving out false information.

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                          • #15
                            Wow, I'm sorry to dig this post up but I was directed to this page after doing research for a recruit. I got here using google, and am worried others may be viewing this information as well.

                            First and foremost there is an incredible amount of misinformation in this post...

                            Anecdotally and all things constant, Outerheaven is CORRECT Expungement of criminal history. Expungement is different than getting records sealed, and each are on a different timeline and up to a state judge's discretion. For example your state may offer partial sealing of a record after 2 years, and full expungement after 5 years. Furthermore the Judge may not accept an expungement request for whatever reason, and most likely will not accept for aggravated crimes, violent crimes, or grand drug crimes (drug dealing, distribution, etc.). But everything is possible, those are just examples.

                            Bottom line: Expungements equal completely destroyed criminal history, which in turn equals the nonexistence of such incidence.

                            The process:
                            State level expungement request>Accepted by judge, disposition made>State police erase all and every record they KNOWLEDGEABLY have
                            MOST state police records are electronically linked to the FBI database, so if your case isn't interesting it will most likely drop from their system immediately.

                            The Problem: When you establish a record, those files are literally scattershot everywhere. This means you will need to find all of your records and send paperwork the the appropriate places to have the expungement complete. Procedure here? Get your local state judge to send the expungement authorization to the appropriate database owner (FBI, CJIS, etc). The easiest way to get this task done is to start doing FBI background checks on yourself, then working down the list and continuing to send expungement requests out. For your TS clearances it's going to be TOUGH to find all available repositories of your criminal history, because that information is stored on both public and private databases. Just going to take more work...

                            The FBI WILL honor expungement requests from state judges, don't let anyone else fool you. They only want to keep track of traffickers, violent criminals, terrorists, and fraudsters. If you aren't those, they aren't going to throw a fit because little Johnny can't get a job with the retail theft on his record.

                            Moral Dilemma: Here's the issue, the state and government operate on two different wave lengths. It has to be understood that at the state level, crimes are charged, reported, and graded with the IDEA that they will be EXPUNGEABLE. This is state level, and is why they offer expungement in the first place... they want you to get your **** straight and earn your reputation back. The Feds don't care and want to know everything, unfortunately whether records are deleted or not is ABSOLUTELY NOT at their discretion. This is a state vs fed issue, and becomes a you vs fed issue if they want your *state* ordered expunged records uncovered.

                            Further, the other dilemma is that they're going to ask you directly about your criminal history. If you have expunged records, and say no, you will be lying about have expunged records BUT in theory will not be lying about having criminal history. Very tight rope to walk there, and depends on your history. Who knows how your poly will go, but the results here are inconclusive and they wont deny you on that unless they suspect you're a terrorist or spy.

                            I'm giving no advice here in this post, just correcting the information above. If your criminal history has been expunged, it does not exist and it's on the individual to get a background check and make sure the paperwork is pushed through. It's also worth noting that if you dont have money problems, fraud charges, violent crimes, or history of substance abuse then the State department doesn't care and will most likely waive you. Keep in mind you're joining the military, so if you don't have integrity then you will not last long enough to expose TS information.

                            *I'm at Ft. Meade, and I've done a lot of work in security. Expungement information above is from numerous expungement attorneys, get with yours if you suspect an issue.*

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